This week's uDig meeting:

0) what is up
1) workshops
2) operations

10:12 - <Jody_> (now all we need to do is wait for andrea )
10:12 - <moovida> evening what exactly does the number 0 mean?
10:12 - <moovida> here I am already
10:13 - <Jody_> zero is generaly the absense of a number :-D
10:13 - <moovida> I couldn't miss this
10:13 - <Jody_> 0) what is everyone up to (one line each)
10:13 - <moovida>
10:13 - <moovida> what is everyone up to?
10:13 - <Jody_> Jody: I am looking at GeoAPI Geometry Factory, and drawing a picture before we get to agenda topic #2
10:13 - <Jody_> (your turn)
10:14 - <moovida> oh, alright
10:14 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Jesse: Bugs are my enemy!!!
10:14 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Renderer and editing bugs for me
10:14 - <moovida> I'm finding a way to get to FOSS4G
10:14 - <moovida> is this enough?
10:15 - <moovida> I gave a look at GEF, met the coverage guys,
10:15 - <moovida> and am ready to start with operations design
10:15 - <moovida> (at least to talk about it)
10:16 - <Jody_> he he - one line :-D (so we can be quick)
10:16 - <Jody_> moovida - jesse and I are actually in a conference call at the same time
10:16 - <Jody_> (is it okay if we are distracted occasionally?)
10:16 - <moovida> that is okay, don't worry
10:17 - <Jody_> We only found out about this yesterday; but still wanted todo the udig meeting ...
10:17 - <Jody_> cool.
10:17 - <Jody_> chorner ? update (you still working on build stuff?)
10:17 - <chorner> only a little
10:17 - <chorner> besides that, not much uDig
10:19 - <chorner> next?
10:20 - <moovida> other up tos?
10:20 - <moovida> should we step to 1)?
10:21 - <chorner> 1) workshops
10:21 - <chorner> FOSS4G2007 + uDig
10:21 - <chorner> deadline today!
10:21 - <moovida> is there already something for udig?
10:22 - <chorner> i think we are going to submit two workshops, based loosely on the walkthroughs
10:23 - <chorner> is there a possibility of a third on jgrass?
10:23 - <Jody_> jesse an I are on that one right now
10:23 - <Jody_> workshop is a lot of work
10:23 - <Jody_> (class room setting)
10:23 - <moovida> I wrote a mail in the list
10:23 - <Jody_> A presentation may be a more relaxed idea ...
10:23 - <moovida> but got no answer
10:23 - <Jody_> but doing something for foss4g is a great idea
10:24 - <moovida> apart of one person offlist... which would found my travel
10:24 - <moovida>
10:24 - <moovida> so I almost finished to write one on JGrass
10:24 - <moovida> hydro-geomorphologic application
10:24 - <moovida> We do a course about it with the university department
10:24 - <moovida> so I know it's lot of work
10:25 - <moovida> but we have already lots of material
10:25 - <moovida> so... it will depend on if it is acepted
10:25 - <moovida> I hope there is interest... in that kind of analysis...
10:26 - <moovida> the silence in ml gave me doubts
10:26 - <moovida> ?
10:26 - <Jody_> sweet
10:26 - <Jody_> moovida do you have like the template and so on?
10:26 - <Jody_> needs like 400 words and that sort of thing
10:26 - <moovida> yes, almost done
10:26 - <Jody_> specific / practicle seems to be better
10:26 - <Jody_> cool!
10:27 - <moovida> it's for a 3 hour workshop..
10:27 - <Jody_> I am going to upload a picture in the next 5 mins
10:27 - <Jody_> (about opperations)
10:27 - <moovida> with less it is impossible... so I will try my luck only with that
10:27 - <Jody_> good
10:27 - <moovida> alright
10:27 - <Jody_> we are going to do ours twice
10:27 - <Jody_> once as a three hour (both tracks together)
10:27 - <Jody_> and then each seperatly (ie two 90 min tracks)
10:28 - <moovida> yeah, I've seen that... but time is too short for 90 minutes
10:28 - <moovida> so I keep my fingers crossed
10:28 - <Jody_> We are also talking about using context documents etc .. so we do not have to worry about the class working with slightly different data
10:28 - <Jody_> cool ...
10:28 - <Jody_> back to my picture (or you will be stuck waiting for me ...)
10:29 - <moovida> ok, where is the link?
10:30 - * moovida will be stuck waiting for Jody?
10:30 - <Jesse_Eichar77> So sounds like we're waiting for jody
10:31 - <Jesse_Eichar77> For now we can discuss releases.
10:31 - <moovida> yup
10:31 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Jody and I are talking about doing monthly releases.
10:31 - <Jesse_Eichar77> mid-month
10:31 - <Jesse_Eichar77> when do you want to have JGrass as part of the release?
10:31 - <Jesse_Eichar77> or do you just want to be an update site for now?
10:32 - <moovida> I mean, part of the release would be good
10:32 - <moovida> but I don't know how the mechanism works
10:32 - <moovida> at what point should it be to get part of it?
10:33 - <moovida> (at least I wanted to have the operations design done first)
10:33 - <Jesse_Eichar77> so to be part of the release we need you to have a JGrass Feature
10:34 - <Jesse_Eichar77> then we can add the feature to the product and JGrass will part of the official release (more or less) we have to make some modifications to the nightly build as well.
10:34 - <Jesse_Eichar77> It is a matter of when you think (and I suppose we think) that JGrass is ready to be part of the official release.
10:35 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Options:
10:35 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 1. JGrass is an update site so it can be installed into uDig
10:35 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 2. JGrass is update site and part of nightly builds
10:36 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 3. JGrass is in nightly and part of the official release
10:36 - <Jesse_Eichar77> I think we should do at least option 2.
10:36 - <moovida> Agreed
10:36 - <Jesse_Eichar77> anyone else have an opinion?
10:37 - <moovida> what would that mean, differently from option 3?
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10:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> help
10:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> phew I'm back
10:38 - <chorner> define "official release"
10:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> RC10
10:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> and on
10:38 - <moovida> (what would that mean, differently from option 3?)
10:38 - <chorner> we would still package an LGPL and GPL version though?
10:39 - <chorner> but the GPL would be "official"?
10:39 - <Jesse_Eichar77> The source code for uDig would be LGPL
10:39 - <Jesse_Eichar77> the SDK would not have JGrass in it so it would be LGPL
10:39 - <chorner> oh... ok
10:40 - <Jesse_Eichar77> the release would be GPL I guess
10:40 - <Jesse_Eichar77> but could strip out JGrass to be LGPL
10:40 - <chorner> just afraid we'll end up like geoserver
10:40 - <Jesse_Eichar77> JGrass is purely an extension so it does not affect uDig or any plugins built on uDig
10:41 - <moovida> what do you mean?
10:41 - <moovida> what is the problem with geoserver?
10:42 - <chorner> important chunks of it are GPL, and that sends some developers running away screaming
10:42 - <Jody_> picture done
10:42 - <Jody_> putting on wiki
10:42 - <moovida> understand
10:42 - <Jody_> (sorry for the delay)
10:43 - <moovida> alright, how to move on?
10:44 - <moovida> release? picture?
10:45 - <moovida> this is gonna be a long night
10:46 - <moovida> you guys prefer to delay all this to another day? It seems that you will be more than distracted
10:46 - <moovida> another possibility would be in my morning
10:47 - <Jesse_Eichar77> So your morning is -9 hours for us. So 10am is 1 am.
10:47 - <Jody_> I am good here is the link
10:47 - <Jody_> http://udig.refractions.net/confluence/download/attachments/5902/operation.png
10:47 - <moovida> 10.30 pm?
10:48 - <Jody_> let me know if that comes up for you
10:48 - <moovida> yup, it is there
10:48 - <Jody_> Cool ...
10:48 - <Jody_> So the first line is what we defined in our design document ....
10:49 - <Jody_> it had an FeatureOperation
10:49 - <Jody_> that had some parameters
10:49 - <Jody_> and two tracks of processing
10:49 - <Jody_> one for FeatureTypes (what a graphical user interface would run when trying to see what connections could be made)
10:49 - <Jody_> and one for Features ... when doing the actual data processing.
10:50 - <Jody_> (hopefully this was your understanding after reviewing that pdf; or talking to me ...)
10:50 - <Jody_> I just want to put this one out there as a reference point
10:50 - <Jody_> so we can talk about why it did not succeed.
10:50 - <moovida> I have a big, big problem with that picture...
10:50 - <moovida> or better with the thought behind it
10:50 - <Jody_> There are many problems - ...
10:50 - <Jody_> you first!
10:51 - <moovida> alright
10:51 - <moovida> I think we need operations that check the type inside,
10:51 - <moovida> because when you do analyses
10:51 - <moovida> you have a module (what you call operation)
10:52 - <moovida> that can take many inputs and outputs
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10:52 - <moovida> values, strings, features, rasters
10:52 - <moovida> whatever...
10:52 - <Jody_> stop a second ...
10:52 - <Jody_> I think what you say ...
10:52 - <Jody_> is what I was trying to say.
10:52 - <Jody_> ie it does check the type inside
10:52 - <moovida> that is very good
10:53 - <Jody_> (this one only checked FeatureType ... it was an example to get us started)
10:53 - <moovida> so now I try to understand it better
10:53 - <Jody_> let me just talk about the second one ....
10:53 - <moovida> alright, treat me as a newbie
10:53 - <Jody_> It is tempting to combine the two (and use FeatureCollection)
10:53 - <Jody_> but we cannot ... simply because we need to treate the Type seperatly
10:53 - <Jody_> (ie the type changes as processing happens ...)
10:54 - <moovida> right
10:54 - <Jody_> we need to know what kind of types come out the other end ... before we do processing ... so we can set up our entire
10:54 - <Jody_> processing "chain")
10:54 - <Jody_> So now we get to the diagram at the bottom of the screen
10:54 - <Jody_> this is only an idea, to get us talking.
10:54 - <Jody_> we need to be
10:55 - <Jody_> a) no tied to Feature (we want to process rasters as well)
10:55 - <Jody_> b) we need to seperate out metadata (ie the type of data) so we can make our chains)
10:55 - <Jody_> c) in the real world not everything works ... 90% in the first passs, 5% on the failures (need a data clean up) and so on ....
10:56 - <Jody_> does the last point make sense? It is something we see on the consulting side of things here ... and we need to plan for it or they will just laugh at me here.
10:56 - <Jody_> (we have lots of experience with FME, and with writing little java/JTS scripts that process data)
10:57 - <Jody_> So I tried to draw that making a failure workflow as part of the "operation" problem needed to be planned from the start ...
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10:57 - <Jody_> I am going to try and answer questions next ...
10:57 - <Jody_> and then talk about what we should do
10:57 - <Jody_> :-D
10:58 - <moovida> hmmm... I'm trying to think if we see it the same way
10:58 - <moovida> make a concrete example
10:58 - <Jody_> Okay
10:58 - <moovida> give me a foo and a bar
10:58 - <Jody_> Your jgrass raster format is called what?
10:58 - <moovida> gmap
10:58 - <Jody_> okay we have some information about gmap
10:59 - <Jody_> bounds, crs, and whatever type information you got (number of bands?)
10:59 - <Jody_> that goes in the "info"
10:59 - <Jody_> you have an operation called "band select" (this is a Foo)
10:59 - <Jody_> it takes a multi band image and selects out a single band
10:59 - <Jody_> the parameters controlling which band is selected goes into that Map....
11:00 - <Jody_> The "Info" chain can take your GMap "Info" and see that there are 3 bands available ...
11:00 - <Jody_> the user can select which band as one of their parameters
11:00 - <Jody_> and the "Band select" operation can spit out a new Info
11:00 - <Jody_> with a single band, same CRS and everything else ...
11:01 - <Jody_> When you decide to hit the go button (ie drop in a gmap file at the start of your chain...)
11:01 - <Jody_> it will actuall process the content ...
11:01 - <Jody_> taking a multi band image, select out the "second band" based on the parameters
11:01 - <Jody_> and spit out a singe band raster
11:01 - <Jody_> You can chain these puppies together ....
11:02 - <Jody_> ie the result is an "info" and a "content"
11:02 - <Jody_> You may have an error condition ...
11:02 - <Jody_> perhaps the "band select" operation is only defined to work on content with descrete bands RRRRRRR GGGGGGG BBBBBBB
11:03 - <Jody_> and will fail on a combined one RGB RGB RGB RGB RGB ...
11:03 - <Jody_> that would be a failure ...
11:03 - <moovida> I see what you mean...
11:03 - <Jody_> and you can define a different chain to handle those failures ....
11:04 - <Jody_> you could try a "band de multiplexer" operation
11:04 - <Jody_> (as Foo 2 )
11:04 - <Jody_> moovida I am totally making this up (I am not so good at raster stuff)
11:04 - <Jody_> How am I doing ...
11:04 - <moovida> I see, let me propose a scenario
11:04 - <moovida> and lets talk about the same
11:04 - <moovida> right?
11:05 - <Jody_> Cool ...
11:05 - <moovida> I think I would do some things different
11:05 - <moovida> alright:
11:05 - <moovida> I want to extract a network from an elevation model
11:05 - <moovida> so I have to simplify 2 steps
11:06 - <moovida> 1) preprocess
11:06 - <moovida> 2) extractnetwrok
11:06 - <moovida> 1 does some preprocessing on the dem
11:06 - <moovida> it takes the dem in input and gives a processed dem as output
11:06 - <moovida> then step two comes
11:07 - <moovida> 2) does the extraction
11:07 - <moovida> it needs the dem
11:07 - <moovida> a value for a threshold for the contributing area to do the extraction
11:08 - <moovida> a name for the output map
11:08 - <moovida> and a boolean to define if the output should be vector or raster
11:08 - <moovida> before I start, I have to link the two together
11:08 - <moovida> but need also a model representing a value
11:08 - <moovida> and one representing a the boolean
11:09 - <moovida> (and if there was to read from a database the rainfall data, I would have needed that also)
11:09 - <moovida> when I link them, I do the consistency chacks
11:09 - <moovida> checks
11:09 - <moovida> then I can push play
11:10 - <moovida> and it will check if all the links are ok
11:10 - <moovida> the links are alive
11:10 - <moovida> do unit conversions, if needed
11:10 - <moovida> do consistency checks
11:10 - <moovida> and it should support time that goes by
11:11 - <Jody_> Thinking .... I am not sure I know the details of "network from a DEM" ...
11:11 - <moovida> see it simple
11:11 - <Jody_> are you breaking down the DEM into say watersheds?
11:11 - <moovida> can also be, yes
11:11 - <Jody_> (forgive me if this question is a distraction)
11:11 - <moovida> don't worry
11:11 - <moovida> but that is all in extractnetwork
11:11 - <moovida> we do not mind
11:12 - <moovida> what we mind is that all we need is
11:12 - <Jody_> okay
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11:12 - <Jody_> So based on your description I do not see a difference from what I outlined
11:12 - <Jody_> But before we proceed
11:12 - <Jody_> can I outline what a the bigger course of action is ...
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11:13 - <moovida> yes
11:13 - <Jody_> I would like us to define the interfaces, and implementations for a "simple example"
11:13 - <Jody_> just as programmers.
11:13 - <Jody_> This kinds of specs our our "domain" for "operations"
11:13 - <moovida> great, just know I will need to play the openMI card
11:13 - <Jody_> And I would like to make this good, clear and complete.
11:13 - <Jody_> And then I would like to build a user interface using GEF
11:14 - <Jody_> (but GEF will come second; and will just let us manipulate the good, clear and complete "model" we have already defined.
11:14 - <moovida> perfect, this suits exactly with what I think
11:14 - <Jody_> I personally do not care what our model is (if you have one in JGRASS then lets use it)
11:15 - <Jody_> The picture only shows what we have tried and failed with; and my idea on where I would take things next ...
11:15 - <Jody_> both in terms of failure handling and in terms of supporting rasters.
11:15 - <Jody_> Q: what is openMI card?
11:16 - <moovida> it is the set of interfaces i would like to use for this
11:16 - <moovida> since it is getting standard for earth sciences modelling
11:17 - <moovida> mainly it defines a pull method
11:17 - <moovida> should I try to explain a bit the main interfaces in the game?
11:18 - <moovida> alright, while you are away I write some down
11:18 - <moovida> to get openMI compliant you need to implement an interface called ILinkableComponent
11:19 - <moovida> this has a few important methods
11:19 - <moovida> 1) initialize(arguments) - passes whatever needed to start
11:20 - <moovida> 2) addLink - to join it with another model
11:21 - <moovida> 3) getValues - with information of time and the calling link
11:21 - <moovida> 4) a dispose or whatever
11:22 - <moovida> the model gets a trigger and that starts everything
11:22 - <moovida> the models are activated down the chain
11:22 - <Jody_> Sure if you have an existing set of interfaces I am game to try it out....
11:23 - <Jody_> Q:
11:23 - <Jody_> 1) initialize(arguments)
11:23 - <Jody_> Is there a way to see what arguments are needed? Ie at runtime...
11:23 - <Jody_> 3) getValues
11:24 - <Jody_> does this one do just data
11:24 - <Jody_> or does it do type information as well ...
11:24 - <Jody_> And yes I do like a "pull" situtation for data processing
11:24 - <moovida> 1) no, the idea is that the initialize is called to prepare and check. Only if everything is ok the trigger is started
11:25 - <Jody_> but it does not work in all cases .... it's handling of failure (as seen in the feature processing case) is poor.
11:25 - <moovida> the arguments probably should have a xml support instead of beeing hardcoded
11:25 - <Jody_> hrm ... so are you stuck providing the description of the arguments yourself?
11:25 - <moovida> how would you do else?
11:25 - <Jody_> um ... you are not going to stick XML in a user interface?
11:26 - <Jody_> the thing that takes the arguments needs a description of what arguments are needed (and probably valid?)
11:26 - <moovida> absolutely, I was thinking of the properties panel
11:26 - <Jody_> The ILinkableComponent is created somewhere right? Perhaps the factory has this information ...
11:27 - <Jody_> thinking ....
11:27 - <Jody_> sorry if I went too detailed there.
11:27 - <Jody_> lets get this puppy to work as programmers first
11:27 - <moovida> no, that is ok
11:27 - <Jody_> and then make a user interface for it
11:27 - <Jody_> You will find GEF about 3 days to 2 weeks of fun ...
11:27 - <Jody_> (but hopefully we can cut that down with Q&A)
11:28 - <moovida> I made some sample... very nice... but heavy metal
11:28 - <moovida> Q&A?
11:28 - <Jody_> having a good model as a starting point (sounds like openMI is good?) will really help.
11:28 - <Jody_> Question and Answer (ie on the mailing list)
11:28 - <moovida> I can send you some code and we can meet again
11:29 - <moovida> to see if it is feasible
11:29 - <moovida> I am boud to it for a project...
11:29 - <moovida> the same that will pay for the console
11:29 - <moovida> so I will be somehow forced anyway
11:29 - <moovida> better if it gets part of the whole engine
11:30 - <Jesse_Eichar77> lets review openMI and get back together? tomorrow or friday?
11:31 - <moovida> I have a problem... I'm away until sunday
11:31 - <Jody_> um .. we are programmers
11:31 - <Jody_> everything is feasible
11:31 - <Jody_> figuring out what is a good idea is harder
11:31 - <moovida>
11:31 - <Jody_> still if it is a specification it means you
11:31 - <Jody_> a) do not have to think as much and can focus on the programming
11:32 - <Jody_> b) may get a community of people interested in your result right away ...
11:32 - <moovida> that is the real truth
11:32 - <Jody_> c) may (big if) be able to leverage some other peoples code
11:32 - <moovida> that would be the first free tool to integrate it
11:32 - <moovida> and I found it good to use
11:33 - <moovida> but it is good for what I do...
11:33 - <Jody_> Okay glad we made contact on this one ...
11:33 - <Jody_> is it bed time?
11:33 - <moovida> don't know if it is the same for you
11:33 - <moovida> 20.33
11:33 - <moovida> and I have to finish the workshop
11:34 - <moovida> when could we meet, if not before Sunday?
11:35 - <Jody_> Sounds like Jesse would like to have a review?
11:35 - <Jody_> So lets take this to email
11:35 - <Jody_> (sorry if I cut off your discussion Jesse)
11:35 - <moovida> what do you mean with take to email?
11:36 - <Jesse_Eichar77> We want to review the OpenMI
11:36 - <Jody_> I need to reset my connection - back in a moment.
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11:36 - <moovida> Jesse
11:36 - <moovida> what do you propose
11:36 - <Jesse_Eichar77> and send you some feedback on how to integrate it into uDig.
11:36 - <moovida> that would be great
11:36 - <moovida> listen
11:36 - <moovida> I have created a fully working example
11:37 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Oh awesome!
11:37 - <Jesse_Eichar77> that will really help our research.
11:37 - <Jesse_Eichar77> what package and plugin is it in?
11:37 - <moovida> don't enjoy too much...
11:37 - <Jesse_Eichar77> haha
11:37 - <moovida> but they needed me to put in also C and fortran...
11:37 - <moovida> so it has also JNI in it
11:37 - <moovida> makefiles and so are there
11:38 - <moovida> so no problem
11:38 - <moovida> if you are not on a MAC
11:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> AAARGH!!!
11:38 - <moovida> and you ARE on a mac, right?
11:38 - <Jesse_Eichar77> lol
11:38 - <moovida>
11:38 - <moovida> Q:
11:38 - <moovida> did you ever do JNI on the mac?
11:39 - <moovida> did you ever do compile fortran on the mac?
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11:39 - <Jody_> back!
11:39 - <Jesse_Eichar77> I've never compiled fortran on a mac
11:39 - <moovida> done JNI?
11:39 - <Jesse_Eichar77> but I have done JNI
11:39 - <Jesse_Eichar77> (A little)
11:39 - <moovida> that is very good, then you are ok
11:40 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Its really easy with eclipse to get the libraries linked up correctly
11:40 - <moovida> you will simply put a print statement in the C code to isolate the fortran
11:40 - <moovida> and you are ok
11:40 - <Jesse_Eichar77> sounds like a mine field to me
11:40 - <moovida> I will send you guys the eclipse project
11:40 - <moovida>
11:41 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Is this part of the uDig integration already?
11:41 - <moovida> I will check and do that for you
11:41 - <moovida> no, not in it
11:41 - <moovida> it is a standalone project
11:41 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Is your uDig plan to be all Java?
11:41 - <Jesse_Eichar77> or some native code as well?
11:41 - <moovida> the main part java
11:41 - <Jody_> I like the best tool for the job ... uDig as intergration/user interface.
11:42 - <moovida> we have to integrate some environmental model
11:42 - <moovida> too complicated to port them
11:42 - <moovida> so we will do JNI
11:42 - <moovida> and give them also GPL
11:42 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Right.
11:42 - <moovida> but I don't want to maintain them
11:42 - <moovida> in a release
11:42 - <moovida> I have JNI
11:42 - <moovida> with all my forces
11:42 - <moovida> hate
11:42 - <moovida> have = hate
11:44 - <Jesse_Eichar77> ok. I don't hate JNI but it can be a problem for x-platform compatibility
11:44 - <Jesse_Eichar77> Don't worry about macifying the project
11:44 - <moovida> yes, that is why I hate it... first JGrass was all JNI
11:44 - <Jesse_Eichar77> I will check it out on my desktop (win XP)
11:44 - <Jesse_Eichar77> and send comments to the mailing list
11:45 - <moovida> great, I will be online whenever I can in the next days
11:45 - <Jesse_Eichar77> cool
11:45 - <Jesse_Eichar77> back to the FOSS4G proposals
11:45 - <Jody_> (aisde: it is snowing - we are in shock! the flowers are already out you see ... so much for the warm part of canada)
11:46 - <Jody_> So meeting done - gather up logs? Leave chat window open as we do workshop proposals?
11:46 - <moovida> :S Italy will have the same problems... humanity will extinct
11:46 - <moovida> alright, I run back to my 400 lines
11:47 - <moovida> when is deadline
11:47 - <moovida> at what hour your time?
11:47 - <Jesse_Eichar77> good question
11:47 - <Jesse_Eichar77> close of business maybe
11:47 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 1 sec I'll try to find out
11:47 - <moovida> thanks
11:49 - <Jesse_Eichar77> end of day
11:49 - <moovida> ==?
11:49 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 12 pm?
11:50 - <moovida> you sometimes commit at 3 am
11:50 - <moovida> perfect!
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77>
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> good luck
11:50 - <rgould> 12 pm is in 10 mins you mean 12 am
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> doh!
11:50 - <rgould> damn ap/pm
11:50 - <moovida>
11:50 - <rgould> am/pm
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 2400
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> hows that
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> 24.00
11:50 - <rgould> 00:00
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> ARGGH
11:50 - <moovida> which is 9 am
11:50 - <Jesse_Eichar77> I'm terrible at this
11:51 - <Jody_> 00:00 - 0.0000001
11:51 - <moovida>
11:51 - <moovida> alright, it's been a pleasure, as usual
11:51 - <moovida> thanks to all
11:51 - <Jesse_Eichar77> ciao
11:51 - <moovida> ciao